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Post by kronzky on Aug 9, 2013 17:44:49 GMT -5
Looks like our weather troubles still aren't over, as it looks like FS9 is handling the static weather differently from FSX, and the whole "fairness ideal" went out the window. I've implemented a temporary fix, and put the relative wind speed that's calculated by Duenna into the results formula, but it's really just a band-aid... So, since I don't really have any good idea of how to proceed in regards to the weather, I've started this poll. I've added all the options that I could think of, but if you have some other creative solution, please let us know. The pros and cons for each option (as I'm aware of them) are listed below, and if you have any further ideas or comments regarding this whole issue, please speak out! 1) Real-world, live weather- Pros: Greatest variety, most realistic, no further software required, everybody is familiar with the method, and works for FS9, FSX & P3D.
- Cons: Gives an advantage to those with lots of patience, or flexible schedules. Doesn't so much reward good flying, but rather good planning.
2) Weekend racingSomething I had suggested previously, but we have never tried it. The idea is to schedule races only for weekends, while using real-world weather. That way everybody has more or less the same weather, you cannot spend a few weeks planning a "perfect" path through the weather, and there's a bit more "action", as everyone is racing at the same time. If somebody absolutely cannot race during the scheduled time, he can still do it later, but will receive a penalty. - Pros: Real-live weather, but the same for everyone. More excitement, as you see each other's results within a day or two. Works for FS9, FSX & P3D.
- Cons: If you don't have time on the scheduled weekend, you will be penalized.
3) Static, saved weatherUsing a third-party program like GetWeather to deliver the same historic weather to all competitors. - Pros: Weather is realistic, and (roughly) the same for everyone.
- Cons: Generated weather differs between FS9 & FSX, and has to be somewhat equalized via formulas. Requires user to run additional software, which can malfunction, or be forgotten.
4) Weather themes- Pros: Easy to use. Same for everyone. Works for FS9, FSX & P3D.
- Cons: Most available themes are not very complex. Themes behave differently whether loaded for each leg, or only once, at the start.
5) No weather- Pros: Easy to use. Same for everyone. Works for FS9, FSX & P3D.
- Cons: Not very challenging.
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prb
Private Pilot
Posts: 62
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Post by prb on Aug 11, 2013 8:32:46 GMT -5
A couple of "weather observations" (as it were): 1. It looks like after installing GetWeather, I can no longer "get weather" using FS's (either 9 or X) "real weather" option without first loading the GetWeather application. It must have done something permanent to both FS installs. If I first load GetWeather, I can then select "real world" weather and it downloads like before. I tested this theory on my other computer, which has clean installs of both FSX and FS9, and these two installs are able to download FS's real weather. On that machine I haven't installed GetWeather. 2. There is another free application out there called FSRealWX Lite. It works for both FS9 and FSX and downloads real weather. Why not just use this one? www.hanse-coders.net/index.php?page=self&id=13. Is FS's real word weather "working" again? I'm doing my own "science project" in an attempt to better understand what all this is about, since I'm still a bit confused. I've started an Excel spreadsheet, in which I will log weather conditions at my real world location (KSUS) and KNUW, NAS Whidbey Island, WA, where the weather changes all the time. I will check weather at these two places, in both FS9 and FSX, using the sim's "real world" weather feature, to see if it's really never changing, or what. |
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Post by kronzky on Aug 11, 2013 9:28:37 GMT -5
1. Yes, I've noticed some erratic "real-world" weather behavior too, after installing GetWeather (sometimes not getting new weather, or, at other times, getting endless error messages, about not being able to connect to the servers). First, make sure that FSX.CFG has WeatherServerAddress set to fs2k.zone.com. GetWeather should reset this automatically when you exit it, but if you have a crash, then things could get out of synch. Then, if this is set correctly, but FSX still doesn't download real weather, even when GetWeather isn't running, go to the "HOME" section in FSX, and click on some of the online links, and then try to download weather once more.  I suspect there is some caching going on, and FSX doesn't realize the switched server address, until you go to a totally different address. 2. Yes, FSRealWX is a good alternative for "real" weather (I'm using it myself, and am even a beta tester for the upcoming Pro version), but unless we're switching back to option 1 (Real-world, live weather), it won't help us right now, as we're using historic weather, and FSRealWX doesn't support that yet. Just in case I haven't explained it adequately elsewhere: On the first day of the race I download the weather for that moment, and upload it to the BPRL server. Once you download that file, and use it in GetWeather, you will then use this same weather (from the 1st) for the whole month, independently of what the actual, current weather is. 3. MS/Jeppesen should be back to delivering live weather. It was static for about two months, and that's why we tried to use that to deliver our static weather, but at the end of June their servers woke up again, and started delivering real-time weather again. I haven't really closely watched it since then (as we didn't need it for BPRL, and for my other flying I use FSRealWX), but this thread on FlighSim sort of keeps track of what's happening with the MS servers. |
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prb
Private Pilot
Posts: 62
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Post by prb on Aug 11, 2013 11:16:13 GMT -5
Thanks Kris. Learned something new today!
- Paul
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Post by kronzky on Aug 11, 2013 12:31:33 GMT -5
Just a little clarification regarding the "Weekend Racing":
This is not meant to be your typical "synchronized" online flying event, where everybody has to be at the starting line at exactly the same time (and which is always a pain to schedule).
Instead, you will have the whole weekend (from midnight Friday to midnight Sunday, local time) to fly the legs at whatever time you want.
So, you still have 48 hours within which you have to schedule your 30 minutes or so of racing (which should make the scheduling a bit easier).
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teson1
Commercial Pilot
Posts: 243
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Post by teson1 on Aug 11, 2013 18:32:24 GMT -5
I'm for the static, saved weather. It has worked out pretty well this month I feel. I wouldn't give too much thoughts on the discrepancy between the weather depiction in FSX and FS9. That discrepancy is rather small (TBC if in other conditions it may be bigger). In particular, sometimes FS9 may be slightly advantaged, sometimes disadvantaged, so the differences should level out over the course of several legs. So I don't think it's absolutely necessary do the wind compensation calculation to level FSX and FS9, which renders the analysis of the data more complicated (though it would probably also compensate for the different effect the wind has on planes of different speed in the frame of the current scoring system). And I feel a little bad being the source of such complication, being the only pilot on FS9...  But FSX is no option for me unfortunately. In any way, I would expect that weather may also be represented slightly differently between FSX and FS9 if direct real weather would be used (and flying with no weather is no option in my opinion), so the difference between FS9/FSX should not be the driver to go for a different weather type. As is, everybody is flying with almost the same weather. Should be good enough. Just a few thoughts. |
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teson1
Commercial Pilot
Posts: 243
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Post by teson1 on Aug 11, 2013 18:45:20 GMT -5
Just another thought - if we compensate wind by calculation anyway, we could let everybody fly whenever they like, using real-world weather.
Not sure whether the head/tailwind calculated by Duenna is sufficiently reliable to account for large discrepancies in wind, but that is one possible additional option if everything else fails...
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Post by dangerousdave26 on Aug 11, 2013 19:37:56 GMT -5
The headwind tailwind factor as recorded by Duenna is only accurate over long legs. Then the average becomes closer to correct but still probably not very accurate at times. The polling frequency can skew any wind data as the wind changes can happen and never be recorded by duenna.
FS9 and FSX are fundamentally different in how they handle the visibility layer of weather so there will never be equality between the two simulators.
I think striving for weather equality between the two simulators is a lost cause. That said the difference between the two is not big enough for me to think there is any problem.
I personally think the historic weather using getWeather works just fine. If we are going to scrape it I would just prefer to go back to real world weather.
I also have FSrealWXlite installed for what it is worth.
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But FSX is no option for me unfortunately.